Mercy, I mean merci :-)... we will begin carnival on 11.11.11, I take it on my list :-)
John Maloney - 2011-11-04 22:10:34+0000 - Updated: 2011-11-04 22:20:36+0000
This is dim and offensive in its profound stupidity. All 'IGWT' means is 'in government we do NOT trust.' It is called subtext. it is a common rhetorical device. IGWT.
In the USA all rights are derived from 'our Creator.' This simply means that govt does NOT furnish rights. Creator/God is intentional vague and universal. It has no bearing on religion or secularism. Good grief. People really need to get a clue. IGWT.
Recall this little love note to King George on 4 July 1776:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Sorry to progressives and liberal reprobates. The Rights of man and of humanity do NOT originate from government. Govt is EVIL, but sometimes necessary. IGWT.
Of course, IGWT originated from the Magna Carta in 1297. Clause 1 of the Magna Carta is still in force today 4 Nov 2011:
1. FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.
+John Maloney And yet. E Pluribus Unum is completely secular. While In God We Trust is not.
In 1297, religion was an absolute fundamental of social thought. In 1776, it was quite radical to be a free thinker and to talk about the separation of church and state and yet religious language was still used in the formulation of that even though the meaning was not religious. In 2011, it feels like we should be able to describe the rights of man without using religious language at all. Do we really need to use religious language to describe a humanist ideal?
Hi - Again, sensible people understand IGWT has nothing to do with religion, religiosity, secularism or separation of anything. Conflating God and organized religion in the context of IGWT is the refugee of progressive scoundrels and filthy statists. It is a rhetorical device. It simply means govt is subordinate. Period. It is a critical thinking principle. 'God' is just convenient.
Besides, "Fuck the Government," while pithy, would probably be inappropriate for US currency, official documents and buildings. IGWT is better for most people.
Liberty is a hierarchy. Govt is pretty low. That's all IGWT means. Americans, per se and universally do NOT trust govt. Recall the 16th US President, "... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Religious nuts never seem to run out of excuses to drag their imaginary friend into everything. But that breed is getting older and dying.
John Maloney - 2011-11-05 16:09:31+0000 - Updated: 2011-11-05 16:23:10+0000
Tony - While your incoherent and inaccurate comment is not germane to this thread on US governance, it is worth correcting you dopey factual mistake. Religion is a worldwide growth industry and quite prosperous. Of course, most increase in the population of religious denomination is simply due to births. However, the world's largest religions are showing strong increases that outrun birth-rate. These include Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism.
Meanwhile, and again, for the third time, IGWT has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
Besides, this fact of IGWT is fully adjudicated and settled law. See: Aronow v. United States, 1970. It was the motto's first challenge. The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled: "It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."
In the USA all rights are derived from 'our Creator.' This simply means that govt does NOT furnish rights. Creator/God is intentional vague and universal. It has no bearing on religion or secularism. Good grief. People really need to get a clue. IGWT.
Recall this little love note to King George on 4 July 1776:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Sorry to progressives and liberal reprobates. The Rights of man and of humanity do NOT originate from government. Govt is EVIL, but sometimes necessary. IGWT.
Of course, IGWT originated from the Magna Carta in 1297. Clause 1 of the Magna Carta is still in force today 4 Nov 2011:
1. FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.
IGWT.
-j
In 1297, religion was an absolute fundamental of social thought. In 1776, it was quite radical to be a free thinker and to talk about the separation of church and state and yet religious language was still used in the formulation of that even though the meaning was not religious. In 2011, it feels like we should be able to describe the rights of man without using religious language at all. Do we really need to use religious language to describe a humanist ideal?
Besides, "Fuck the Government," while pithy, would probably be inappropriate for US currency, official documents and buildings. IGWT is better for most people.
Liberty is a hierarchy. Govt is pretty low. That's all IGWT means. Americans, per se and universally do NOT trust govt. Recall the 16th US President, "... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
Get it?
IGWT.
-j
Meanwhile, and again, for the third time, IGWT has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
Besides, this fact of IGWT is fully adjudicated and settled law. See: Aronow v. United States, 1970. It was the motto's first challenge. The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled: "It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."
-j